well, there's the dishonesty in saying you'd address the question as to why jehovah's spirit directed organization is appointing active child molestors to the body of elders...that's for starters
rather be in hades
JoinedPosts by rather be in hades
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Recovery - Why so much intellectual dishonesty?
by tootired2care inrecovery likes to point out little nit-picky technical with the jwfacts.com website.
recovery to me is aptly described in jesus illustration as the one who strains the gnat but gulps the camel.. why can't he acknowledge any of the responses and evidence presented to his questions in the threads that he's created?
furthermore why doesn't recovery use the same critical standard on the organization that has claimed to be selected by christ and is spirit directed?
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Jwfacts-- Why So Many Contradictions?
by Recovery ini am well aware that many members of this board adhere to the view that the wt and/or the bible is contradictory.
the question is: if paul grundy is so enlightened as to 'the truth about the truth', why is he so contradictory?.
jwfacts to me (in a personal message): "much of the information at jwfacts.com is from the research of people far more gifted then me,and comes from jwn.
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rather be in hades
I'm sure the lurkers out there would love to know why the legal department of the jehovah's witnesses would dispute in those very same documens that:
- pioneers are held as examples in the congregation (9)
- or why they would say unbaptized members are not viewed as part of the congregation (16)
- there's the question of time slips. according to the watchtower society in LEGAL PAPERWORK you do not have to turn in time (23 and 24)
- there's the qestion of the meeting for field service...nnecessary according to the watchtower society (25)
- there's the question of territories...unnecessary according to the watchtower society (26 and 27)
- the purpose of field service is to preach about the good news, NOT TO INVITE PEOPLE TO THE KINGDOM HALLS OR TO BEGIN BIBLE STUDIES SO AS TO ATTRACT NEW MEMBERS (27 AND 28)
there's a lot of explaining to do because all of that stands in direct contradiction to everything that we've all been taught as jws.
sounds like someone's lying and we all know who the father of the lie is. is that the person directing the organization?
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Jwfacts-- Why So Many Contradictions?
by Recovery ini am well aware that many members of this board adhere to the view that the wt and/or the bible is contradictory.
the question is: if paul grundy is so enlightened as to 'the truth about the truth', why is he so contradictory?.
jwfacts to me (in a personal message): "much of the information at jwfacts.com is from the research of people far more gifted then me,and comes from jwn.
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rather be in hades
if recovery is REALLY interested in defending "the truth" and wants to debunk the accusations, then my suggestion is to explain my questions because lurkers are going to see this:
they'll read the documents in file 2a which were prepared by the watchtower bible and tract society themselves and they will seethese undisputed facts and this undisputed timeline of events:
starting from page 2...
- they don't deny the elders are revered in the congregation - meaning they take leadership and are trusted (2)
- don't deny elders and ministerial servants are vetted before becoming one - uh ohhhh (3)
- they don't deny elders are agents of the watchtower - so if an elder rapes a child...and the elder is an agent of the watchtower...(5)
- they don't deny there is an elder book that tells them how to handle sexual abuse - so it's by wt instructions how to handle matters (6)
- they don't deny you mst be approved for field service - vetting? we are talking about approaching homes with children...(11)
the time line is rather scary. all of these are facts not disputed by the watchtower society
- 1977 - dorman was born
- 1980 - campos becomes an baptized publisher in 1980 (34)
- 1982 - campos molests a young member of linda vista congregation (39)
- 1982 - yong member tells his mother (40)
- 1982 - at this time, campos CONFESSES to the boy's mother (41)
- 1982 - -mother tells elders, elders investigate, campos confesses to elders, NO ACTION TAKEN (42-47)
- 1982 - elders decides it's a minor matter bc they feel as though the mothers of the two involved worked it out somehow (48)
- 1982 - elder knew molestation was a crime, that he may repeat the crime, yet no restrictions on service and cong not warned (49)
- 1982 - police never called and campos continued condcting bible studies (50-51)
- 1983 - WHEN DORMAN WAS 6 YEARS OLD, CAMPOS WOULD SODOMIZE HIM AFTER BIBLE STUDY. HE WOULD TAKE DORMAN TO WORK WITH HIM. DORMAN'S MOTHER THOUGHT THIS WAS FINE AS HE WOULD BE A GOOD EXAMPLE FOR HER SON. (100)
- 1985 - WHEN DORMAN WAS APPROX 8 YEARS OLD, THE ABUSE STOPPED...AT LEAST AT WORK...STILL SKETCHY IF THERE WAS MORE. (100)
- 1986 - linda vista splits into la jolla and linda vista. both halls comprised of members from the original linda vista (57)
- 1986 - inaugural elders for la jolla congregation were elders from linda vista
- 1986 - elders form judicial committee for campos as more sexal molestation allegations come forth (pg. 24 - 2)
- 1986 - reproved, not expelled, temporary restriction on some priveledges (pg. 24 - 3)
- 1987 - Dormans move to Illinois, victim was 10...
- 1988 - becomes a ministerial servant (36)
- 1988 - campos started molesting gamboa and continued molesting him until 1994, sometimes as many as 2-3x a week from oral to attempted sodomy, digital anal penetration. (83-86)
- 1993 - becomes an elder, eventually becomes congregation servant (37)
- 1994 - gamboa moves to arizona and campos can no longer abuse him (86)
- 1994 - the dormans learn their son had been molested by campos (60)
- 1994 - campos admits to molesting dorman AND THAT THE ELDERS ALREADY KNEW (61)
- 1994 - dormans ask the riveras who are believed to have a son molested by campos, riveras were already warned of campos (62)
- 1994 - elders say that if she pursues the matter a previous affair she engaged in would be disclosed to the congregation, also said that too many years had passed and there was nothing they could do (63)
this calls into question how jehovah's spirit directed organization could possibly allow campos who was already accused of child molesting TO THE BODY OF ELDERS, to be promoted ministerial servant and later elder. all the while he was continuously molesting children in the flock that he was supposed to sheppard
whose spirit is really directing the organiztion?
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Jwfacts-- Why So Many Contradictions?
by Recovery ini am well aware that many members of this board adhere to the view that the wt and/or the bible is contradictory.
the question is: if paul grundy is so enlightened as to 'the truth about the truth', why is he so contradictory?.
jwfacts to me (in a personal message): "much of the information at jwfacts.com is from the research of people far more gifted then me,and comes from jwn.
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rather be in hades
not trying to contradict make believe stuff. aka magic and miracles
far more interested in why jehovah's spirit directed organization is promoting active child molestors to the body of elders.
can you explain that contradiction? why would jehovah's spirit directed organization promote active child molestors to the body of elders so they can sodomize children?
is that really god's organization? does jehovah approve of that?
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mission accomplished!
by rather be in hades init looks like the thread about stopping threads about stopping gorilla threads has been stopped.
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rather be in hades
it looks like the thread about stopping threads about stopping gorilla threads has been stopped
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Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd
by Recovery injwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.
i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.
1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.
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rather be in hades
recovery, do you have any explanation why your spirit directed organization is promoting active child molestors to the body of elders?
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Jwfacts-- Why So Many Contradictions?
by Recovery ini am well aware that many members of this board adhere to the view that the wt and/or the bible is contradictory.
the question is: if paul grundy is so enlightened as to 'the truth about the truth', why is he so contradictory?.
jwfacts to me (in a personal message): "much of the information at jwfacts.com is from the research of people far more gifted then me,and comes from jwn.
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rather be in hades
how about you explain why your spirit directed organization is promoting active child molestors to become elders?
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Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic?
by Recovery ini have a question for the author of the website jwfacts.
as i was reading the sparlock article, i couldn't help but notice something seriously wrong:.
"the bible abounds in vivid fantasy, such as its many celestial descriptions, or the portrayal of warring kingdoms with imaginary beasts.. the sparlock message is confusing, as much for an adult as for a child, as the bible shows that god's followers practice magic, even if they are usually referred to as miracles.
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rather be in hades
if the jws are supposedly using secular sources to back up their claims (they're not) then why would we need to look at wt sources when they are supposedly using secular sources to piece together their information anywawy?
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Jwfacts-- Why So Many Contradictions?
by Recovery ini am well aware that many members of this board adhere to the view that the wt and/or the bible is contradictory.
the question is: if paul grundy is so enlightened as to 'the truth about the truth', why is he so contradictory?.
jwfacts to me (in a personal message): "much of the information at jwfacts.com is from the research of people far more gifted then me,and comes from jwn.
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rather be in hades
seems you lied about the permission and still ignoring the question about why your spirit directed organization is appointing child molesting elders
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Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd
by Recovery injwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.
i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.
1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.
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rather be in hades
that's a helluva lot of holy spirit he's gonna need. prolly more than 30 minutes lmao.
i saw that passage and my eyes went cross eyed lol
